calling all ANARCHISTS!!!

As I said the other day (http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/01/1798540.php), WCW is an RCP front group, and the RCP is a vanguardist organization, so technically WCW is a vanguard group.

As to your thing about protest as usual...

it's normal to request a permit for a protest, even though we have "rights" to free speech and to freedom of assembly. You're not gonna impress anarchists by begging for a permit.

the toppling a statue thing has been done- you guys got the idea from the Iraqis, who toppled a statue of Saddam Hussein about three years ago.

making a cacophony or whatever to drown out bush-- this comes from the idea of "cacerolazo," which was popularized when we all heard about the protests in Argentina and other countries in South America a couple of years ago. we've even had cacerolazos here in the bay area. and in cancun and in lots of other places. not so unusual.

i'd imagine we can also add in some speeches from joey johnson, some "youth" from the RCYB, and maybe if we're lucky, stephanie. or even some radical spoken word. also been done.

so this sounds pretty much like protest as usual. if it's going to be something unusual, it might freak out the cops and they'd want to arrest us. if anarchists are expected to risk arrest, you'd better explain the whole plan to us in advance (although we would really want to have been in on planning whatever "action" you are thinking of), not just invite anarchists for something that's "not" going to be protest as usual. Do you understand?

This post is a duplicate of:

Calling all ANARCHISTS!!!
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/01/1798540.php

why does the RCP love anarchists so much?
by FUCK MAO & AVAKIAN Friday, Jan. 27, 2006 at 1:56 PM


it's seems that chairman bob avakian has been exhorting his minions to recruit anarchists, whom the RCP seem to think are just another sectarian group of marxist/maoist communists.

wrong, fuckers.

we know our history, and we know that commies like you will ALWAYS kill us - usually by shooting us in the back and almost always in concert with the fascists - with whom you have more in common than with anarchists.

sorry, but going and showing my face (or facial geometry - easily measured from behind a mask) at an RCP-sponsored event calling for bush to "step down" is not AT ALL consistent with my politics or world view.

you simply want bush to "step down" and be replaced with what - a democrat? motherfucking clinton murdered ONE AND A HALF MILLION iraqis through sanctions and WEEKLY BOMBINGS FOR EIGHT YEARS. his sec'y of state went on 60 Minutes and was asked, point-blank, what her stance on the DEATH OF HALF A MILLION IRAQI CHILDREN due to sanctions. her answer was clear and unhesitating, she said "WE THINK THE PRICE IS WORTH IT."

and how did the bay area and the RCP respond? total fucking silence, aside from a few hundred of us who protested to the wind.

personally, i prefer bush as president as he is 1) doing a fine job of destroying america, 2) killing 1/10 as many iraqis as his democratic predecessor, 3) generating resistance to the american empire (vs. total silence when a dem is in power).

i know those of you in the RCP are fond of coopting anarchist rhetoric and even style.

we're not fooled.

we know you support state property. we know you support state capital. and of course, you support authoritarianism. all three of those are completely antithetical to anarchism.

auth commies should die. die like a fucking american solider bleeding to death in a ditch in baghdad.

--------------------------------------------

FUCK ANSWER, FUCK THE RCP
by AUTONOMOUS IS WHAT WE WANT TO BE. Friday, Jan. 27, 2006 at 2:30 PM

the anarchist post above mine could have well been mine because it says everything i might have.

Bush is not the cause of this imperialist war. it begin with his father, Clinton, your beloved democrap, kept the war going for 8 years killing thousands while you all were sitting at home doing nothing to oppose it.

why the thrist to unite the anarchists with the RCP? i am never going to bow down to Chairman Bob or any other leader. and i refuse to walk down the middle of a permitted parade route. we have always been the ones taking the heat form the pigs while you all stand safely on the sidewalk and gasp as the cops use illegal pain complience holds to move us out of the way. are you going to lockdown in the streets with us or do you plan to stand on a podium and preach to the crowd about how evil Bush is while forgetting the problems are systemic.

will you remain safely on the sidewalk or run up against a police line?

And say hello to Justice Alito while you're at it.....

Yes, this demonstration really should be filled with democrats. The WCW should be advertising on Dailykos - which is based out of Berkeley, and is one of the top 10 blogs in the country. The democrats there are always busy fundraising and organizing phone-in campaigns and commiserating with each other, and you know that a few thousand of them have to be located in the Bay area. And there are thousands more liberals and democrats in San Francisco city borders who loathe Bush, and will be dragged into a more active role next year when the inevitable Roe v. Wade revision takes place. So that has to be the most effective area to organize. If you want a particularly energetic group, don't underestimate the nonanarchists. There are many examples of not regularly active people who put together a noteworthy protest on special occasions. Look at the pictures of the 150,000 who turned out at the largest pre-iraq escalation protests that were put on by ANSWER

With all the redbaiting on this website, you'd think it was Fox News.com... Did anyone hear O'reilly going after the RCP to discredit the WCW last month? The other comments here fit right in. No substance, just tired rhetoric about communists betraying anarchists and Bob Avakian as dictator. What hipocritical bullshit, when every other anarchist has a subcomandante marcos t-shirt. Try actually getting down with the oppressed and see if they are as hostile to leadership as you individualistic, egotistical, petit bourgeois, sectarian anarchists are. Why do you think anarchism has almost no sway in the third world? If you're so revolutionary and militant, why don't you take a clue from the maoist guerrillas in Nepal, Peru, the Philppines, and India and be like a fish among the sea of people. There is a rising tide of resistence all over the world, yet you sectarian motherfuckers (not all anarchist, just the ones who have commented here) would rather sit in front of your computer blogging about the RCP than get out in the streets to stop facism!

this is a duplicated reply (with a little changes)
This is so ridiculous. Bush is justifying torture, taking away women's rights, and moving towards a religious theocracy, and all that anarchist can say is "fuck bob" or "fuck the rcp". in the statement of the w.c.w it talks about the roll of the democrats in this fascist regime but why would you bother to read and analyze when you can just criticize without knowing. Maybe this is why for the last 70 years there was no anarchist revolution, or as was mention already, there are no anarchists in third world countries. And talking about Marcos, don’t let the fact that the zapistas quit armed struggle so they can run to the Mexican parliament (fuck the state……) stop you from worshiping chairman Marcos.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1676443,00.html

Give me a break. I've been working for/against these crummy commies for years. The only thing these guys know how to get people arrested. Don't fall for these nitwits.

Chairman Meow

I'm going to answer you point by point and answer your points directly not because i think you yourslef are smart, but becuase your critique crystallizes what is so worng with the one-dimensional thinking of soem the supporters of the World Can't Wait.
"This is so ridiculous. Bush is justifying torture, taking away women's rights, and moving towards a religious theocracy, and all that anarchist can say is "fuck bob" or "fuck the rcp"."
Every anarhcist criticizes bush, torture, theocracy, etc. It's just that we don't have 1-track minds. We can criticize the RCP and Bob and the state "dictatorship" he wants to create and also criticize bush and the other tortureres or wannabe torturers aorund the world.
" in the statement of the w.c.w it talks about the roll of the democrats in this fascist regime but why would you bother to read and analyze when you can just criticize without knowing."
Is India, that why the world can't wait works with alll stirp[es fo democrats andd wants more?
"there are no anarchists in third world countries."
I personally know anarchists from Mexico, Brazil, Ecuador, Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, South Africa, Nigeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Jamiaica, India, and Indonesia. And tyhat what i know.
" And talking about Marcos, don’t let the fact that the zapistas quit armed struggle so they can run to the Mexican parliament (fuck the state……) stop you from worshiping chairman Marcos."
The Zapatistas and their movement is farly complicated, like any social movement worth it's salt should be, and i have nuanced and mixed feelings about some of the differnet thigns they do and call for, but i can tell one pure unadulterated fact: Marcos and the Zapatistas are not running for the Mexican Parliament.

And how you say "fuck the state" and support "chairman avakian" and the state he wants to create?

"yet you sectarian motherfuckers (not all anarchist, just the ones who have commented here) would rather sit in front of your computer blogging about the RCP"

No. . . we just wont follow your leader. And this is comming from someone who worked with the RCP over 10 years ago, so dont give us some bullshit responses about how maoists all over the world ______ (fill in the blank).

You're just bummed cause we wont show up to your parade.

For the sake of the argument I will ignore your writing in spelling mistake as a way to make fun at me. This argument is not about your personality (which obviously has no respect for immigrants).

Its not that you can not criticize the rcp or bob avikian. But the respond of most of the anarchist was "fuck the rcp" "fuck the Maoist" without actually relating to question of what do we do about it. (and how we can unite as many people against a nazi take over)
The w.c.w has a lot of democrats, again the w.c.w sick to unite as much people as possible under one program. If you think that the democrats are part of the whole fascist program of bush you are with us. There a lot of people that can be united and educated under this program. I think that the position of the r.c.p is that in order to achieve revolution you need to have a civil war. I did not understand your comment about India.

What I meant with my comment about anarchist in third world countries is that they have no real power in those countries. while the Maoists are waging revolutions in Nepal, India, and the Philippine. your right the zaptisias did not run for the parliament, but that does not change the fact that they gave up arm struggle. And I think that that tales you something about the whole anarchist movement. Your very good at braking windows or stooping traffic, but when it comes to making a revolution or sizing power, you lack the understanding of how to do it. And maybe this is why you ignored my question about how come in a world composes of so much injustice the anarchist for the last 70 years have not made even one revolution.

1. I was not making fun of you or your immigrant status (which i didn't know of). I am a bad typist who has had a stroke and often makes typographical errors in postings that i make. Look up other postings i have made here on indybay and you can see my typos. Sopmme i make ones that are really bad.
2. The question of what one does to create social change at any particular moment in history is a tricky one. The fact that the Zapatiistas have put their weapons at this particular moment and, you say "denounced" armed struggle may have to do with place they are at and what they consider the road forward at the moment rather than the any general denunciation of "armed struggle".
3. in that regard, the r-r-revolutionary communist party does not have an armed wing at the momment and at the last world cna't wait event, their spokespperson denounced the throwing of molotov cocktails at that event. Unless you're going to claim that that make them reactionaries or at least no longer revolutionaries, you can agree that whether you take up arms at any particlar moment is not a sign of your intentions in building a better world but only poossibly a tactical question.
4. I don't understand my comments about india. There seems to have been somethign totlally messed up there. i think soemthing happened there that got typed totally discombobulated either in my brain, in my computer, or in indybay's computer or in some combination of all three. Ignore that line.
5. Why do you keep making a magic number of 70 years? I don't believe that any social change (no matter which ways the reforms were carried out) in the past 200 years have made the world any freer, and yet at times i still believe that a lot of things hace happened and are happening both evolutionarily and revolutionarily that will help build up to the time of freedom in the world.
6. And what does the non-anarchist but more civil libertarian than most Marxists Zapatistas "giv[ing] up" armed struggle, tell you about anarchists?
7. You're right in one area. Anarchists don't want to "seize power". We want to abolish it.

I'm glad you say us anarchists are good at breaking windows and stopping traffic becuase nobody else seems to know how to do any of this these days.

Well, I knew people who used to be anarchist ten years ago… what does that says about anarchists? Is this is how you are going to counter an argument, by stating that you used to work with the r.c.p?

And yes, the Maoists all over the world do need us to fight fascism and to create a polarization in society, and a civil war. Who do you think will intervene first if the Maoist in Nepal or India will size state power? (In Nepal the Maoists are controlling more than 60 percent of the country)

2 what reason can be in a third world country to give up arm struggle? (Which I suspect is not something relative). Mao developed the understanding of how to conduct a communist revolution in a third world country, (surrounding the city from the side country, a united front, and autonomy bases). I think that you should take a look at his writing about "peoples war" to understand what the zapatistas made wrong other than giving up arm struggle. At any situation there is a lot of lines, and our responsibility is to make sure that our means correspond to the goal. how can a peaceful campaign correspond to the goal?

3 there is a difference in conducting a people's war in third would country then in imperialist ones. In imperialist countries the arm forces of the state can be at any place very fast (unlike in third world country where there is areas that they cannot get to). Therefor you need to wait for golden times (like the 60's or the 30's) when a lot of objectives come together and the ugly face of this system is so obvious. our responsibility is to educate as much people as possible and to push for this times to come. In the incident with the Molotov battle the w.c.w just ask people not to give an accuse for the pigs to bit us up, (since they outnumber us and their was some families with kids). in a statement realist by the w.c.w. the w.c.w actually denounce the cops and the media. And if anybody was arrested for throwing that battle we would have provided them with lawyers and accompany them to court (just like we did with the other people who got arrested)

3 I'm making the 70 years number in referring to the Spanish revolution, in which anarchist have took part in. I think that revolutionary Russia and Chine have contributed to the understanding of how to make and to hold to state power. The changes that were made for the oppressed under Mao proved what the masses are able to do when they get the chance. and while understanding that Mao Stalin Lenin and Marx did make mistakes we uphold the experience of the socialist countries, and the science of revolution. Revolution is a science and like everything else in the universe is a development. Astronomy did not appear as a science one day, there was a development of the research of the stars and galecsys, and even today there is new discoveries of stars and more understanding of galecsys. Reality is no difference. I think that a lot of anarchists regard revolution as a spontaneous thing that happens from nothing (and this is why anarchism just like religion is a very idealist theory). And still the question remains, how come in the last 70 years in a world torn by revolutions the anarchist never had even one?
I really don’t understand your comment about evolutionary change, are you implying that we are changing the world neutrally by evolving?
Not all Marxist are communist defiantly not those who do not develop a peoples war in Mexico or who give up arm struggle.
7 communist want to abolish power as well, they understand the complicates of the state and how to use the state to free the masses and the oppressed here and around the world. The masses in a communist state, a dictatorship of the proletarian, are much more free than under any capitalist state.
The point about braking glasses and stopping traffic was that in order to change society we are going to need to do much more then that, (not to say that anarchist don’t do more) we are going to have to make a revolution.

Maoists in Peru became really unpopular due to their inductment tactics.

Anyway - I don't know why there would be such a stress on trying to get the 'anarchists', with max. attendance of 2000, to go out to this petition Bush for grievances. Union Square is a great site, and look at this great mass of bloggers who are spending hours keyboarding about their discontent. Some very much look like they could be coaxed outside for something like this.

DailyKos is or can be this enormous time sink, where if you read the comment threads of a few of these 'diaries', half an hour goes by, yet they seem like they all know each other and spend a lot of time blogging and reading diaries here.

For instance, look at these typing how they're very disappointed in the democrats allowing Alito in, and they've just had it and can't take this anymore and they're going to give up and change their registration as independents.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/30/161653/776

Then these others respond about how the democrats must be reformed and this is an election year and we can't give up hope. So... perhaps you could talk some of them into standing by the Bush effigy and pushing it over. Or at the very least, they appear to be more recruitable.
http://bragan.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/31/94738/5134
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/1/30/224553/858

"Is this is how you are going to counter an argument"

No. You have no argument -- just a bunch of hyperbole and generalizations.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/01/333056.shtml

Look - these Portland people are taking their grievance petition seriously. Bush will surely quiver.

I agree about the need for revolution, but you seem to be religious about how to do so, believing that what Mao, Lenin (and possibly Bob A.) say is the end alll be all, and not that making revolution especially in this ever-changing world is experimental. When you don't experiemnt with new ideas like the Zapatistas have, you remain stagnant like people who believe in Geroge Bush and Mao tse-Tung.

Anarchists need to learn and remember our history.

Fascists will shoot us.

Authoritarian Communists will shoot us.

Social Democrats will shoot us.

If you are serious about anarchism, it's time to STOP allowing ourselves to be fooled AND KILLED by these filthy posers, and it is well past the time that we should START shooting each and every fascist, authoritarian communist, and social democrat that we can find.

"But wait! But wait!" you say - wouldn't that make us murderers?

Tell that to 3 million vietnamese killed by social democrats.
Tell that to half a million iraqi children killed by social democrats.
Tell that to people who have the fascists' bombs raining down on them - RIGHT NOW - in iraq and palestine.
Tell that to the millions dead from maoism, marxism, and leninism.

It is time for human beings to rise up and DEFEND ourselves from CAPITALISM and its three ugly children - fascism, authoritarian communism,, and social democracy.

Just in case I havn't made myself clear: YOU RCP SCUM NEED TO DIE. DIE LIKE A FUCKING AMERICAN SOLDIER BLEEDING TO DEATH IN A DITCH IN BAGHDAD.

We won't get fooled again. Watch your motherfucking backs, scumbags.

I'll be watching the corporate TV news tonight for the bodycount you personally will be creating. I assume you are starting with the shooting as soon as you turn off your computer

you do plan to lead by example, right?

or are you just another loudmouth poseur who expects others to do their work for them? armchair warrior? chickenhawk?

The comment above me seem to be written by a police provocateur, I recommend people to reed "agents of repression" by Word Churchill to learn more about it.


Your right the science of revolution is not dogma. Mao said that it’s a guideline. And you need to experience with new things all the time. on the other hand I wont try to vote for the democrats or run to congress, or give up on arm struggle in Mexico. While reality is changing all the time there is surtain things that don’t. the democrats are part of this whole nazi program and voting for them would not change anything. Running for congress even as a progressive candidate would not change anything. And there is the basis for a Maoist revolution in Mexico, and giving up on arm struggle comes not from trying new things, but from being ignorance about reality.

You still haven't answer my questions about how come the anarchism have no rule in third world country, and why in a the past 70 years in a world torn by so many revolutions the anarchist did not even had one revolution.

I meant the comment by "history" seems to be written by a police provaceture.

that was nessie, or someone using his exact hyperbolic style

so, perhaps he is a provacateur afterall, set to turn factions against eachother and destroy IMCs one by one

let's see....

the RCP has front groups that make them appear to not be authoritarian communists - do anarchists do that?

the RCP/WCW gets on stage with smiling genocidal murderers from the democratic party - do anarchists do that?

the RCP/WCW appears to have plenty of money to mount demos, print newspapers, and support paid activists - do anarchist groups have that kind of money?

the RCP uses the techniques of cultural appropriation to recruit others - i.e. looking like a stereotype of anarchists, but following a decidely unanarchist cult of personality. do anarchists do that?

so, tell me, who needs front groups? who aligns themselves with murderers? who has the money - and where does it come from?

who has the history of brutality?

and yet, when one suggests DEFENSE against these authoritarian murderers, the only kind of defense that history has shown to be effective against these kinds of authoritarians - one is accused of being a cop.

funny - wouldn't it be far more likely for the cops to be working with front groups, smiling murderers, cultural appropriators, and mystery money? (did you REALLY read that ward churchill book???)

let's be clear. the RCP is not a "faction" of some movement in which there are both anarchists and authoritarian communists. they can't claim to be anti-war - they stand on stage with democrats! they can't claim to be anti-capitalist - they represent the very essense of state capitalism...

guess what? the nazi party is also opposed to the war on iraq. would you stand on stage with them? would you call them just another faction in a larger movement?

and what is the most effective - tried and true - method of dealing with nazis? you shoot them. if you don't shoot them, then you have to have a big war and bomb them.

as one you are touching on some important questions that other people should have an answer too. I’m basically using your tactic against you.

The w.c.w doesn’t have any money (and this is why we ask people to donate money all the time) the w.c.w actually owes hotheads of duller to a lot of it volunteer activist. people take responsibility of the times and left everything behind in order to fight fascism.

Again the program (the statement) of the w.c.w talks about how the democrats are no answer, how women should have reproduction rights, and how we need to get bush just like people in other countries drove dictators. If you agree with that program you can join us. There are a lot of people who vote for the democrats and are doing knew the crimes that the democratic party have made, and is the time to educate them.

What do mean by “we look like anarchist” this struggle is not about a fashion statement.

In “agents of repression” ward Churchill writes that one of the main program of the co-Intel was trying to dived between different groups.

The last thing that the arm forces of this state want is that a popular movement would show the masses that wham they don’t want a president they can just kick him out, and not just waiting in line to the voting booth.

http://www.radio4all.org/aia/sec_cointelpro.html

Security Practices and Security Culture

From "COINTELPRO: The Danger We Face"


(snip)

An actual agent will often point the finger at a genuine, non-collaborating and highly valued group member, claiming that he or she is the infiltrator.

(snip)

we'll see whose got better ideas soon enough.

anarchists and communists, the new democrats and republicans (after the revolution)?

make a statement like a provacateur would about running around and shooting people for their political affiliations (even though you would never do such a thing yourself)

someone calls that out as provacateur-ish (like the cop that throws the first rock from the safety of a crowd)

call that person who said anything about you a provacatuer

you've got this thing down to a science


but then doesn't you suggesting someone else is a provacatuer make YOU the provacateur again?


basically, of course, once again, you miss the whole point, that making such comments essentially makes you a chickenhawk punk coward expecting others to take actions you refuse to

now, perhaps you can tap dance for us the ad hominem routine, and continue to ignore the giant gulf between your words and actions

>essentially makes you a chickenhawk punk coward expecting others to take actions you refuse to

That's begging the question. They're not my comments.


>now, perhaps you can tap dance for us the ad hominem routine,

That's an ad hominem.


>and continue to ignore the giant gulf between your words and actions

That's begging the question again. There is no gulf.


You *really* need to study up on critical reasoning.

Here are some good places to start:

Critical Thinking Core Concepts

Stephen's Guide to the Logical Fallacies

The Nizkor Project: Fallacies

Thirteen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Disinformation vs. Truth

Methods of Persuasion: Key Terms

all you can ever do is regurgitate the same old shit

your mind is weak and frail

always evident by such rigidity

bring on the broken record, bust out the same old tired links. snore

you *really* need flex your head, take your mind out for a walk once in a while to somewhere it hasn't been before. scary, yes, but odds are you'll survive. give it a whirl. be brave. next time you reflexively want to pull out your tired list of links, stop, take a deep breath, and try something fresh. actually think for once



besides, if that shoot 'em up comment wasn't you, this time, it very well could have been. note how you haven't refuted that comment, but instead attack those who call out the ridiculousness of that comment

it not a question about whats more radical, its a question about whats going to work.

to all maoists your right, maoists do a better job of killing people and seizing power than anarchist. but anarchism is about stopping this think from happen in the first place.

"The anarchists are good at doing other things", like what?

The whole point of changing society is by making revolution. If you are so much about changing society tale me why for the last 70 years the anarchist did not make revolution, or why anarchist have no influence in third world countries.

Anarchism hasn't had critical mass or a strong ideological center since its heyday 90+ years ago, when it was THE revolutionary threat. Accordingly the ruling class hyenas
ripped its guts out. You've heard of the Palmer raids, right? The destruction of the IWW? During that period the US did to anarchism what was later done to communism by McCarthyism, i.e. disemboweled it, leaving behind only a faint residue that was a cruel caricature of the former movement. This was the FBI's first big psy-operation as state secret police. The same thing happened to anarchism almost everywhere else. Fascist, communist, and more moderate rightist governments ALL dislike anarchism -- by dint of being governments -- and have sought to erase it within their borders. This didn't leave a lot of places where it could hang on.

It HAS been a revolutionary threat in the past. To deny this is simple historical ignorance.

Only recently has it attracted enough interest to begin recovering, and it's now at a stage of redevelopment where considerable time is still needed. So much of its intellectual energy has been lost, thrown in a pile and torched like the scrolls of Alexandria.

Now here's a question for YOU: what positive lasting difference has communist revolution made in the world? It now has, what, two fugitive states to show for all its struggle, which are under steady corrosive siege and probably won't last long after Castro and Kim Sung Il pack it in. All the revolutions everywhere else have been dismantled, which is what the hyenas do to ANYTHING that threatens them.

You say "The whole point of changing society is by making revolution." I think this is comically simplistic. What about revolutions that fail, as seen in Central America in the '80s? Don't they do enormous harm? It's not revolution itself that is the object, but lasting positive change, and in this respect I don't see a whole lotta difference between communism and anarchism. They both represent options monarchists feel they must destroy absolutely, and so they have.