EBAA Reveals Cruelty in the Rabbit Meat Industry

Our Government classifies rabbits as poultry? Why am I shocked? This is the same government that classifies ketchup as a vegetable.

I have a house rabbit- they are the sweet, gentlest creatures imaginable.

I've often thought it would be an effective protest to bring our loveable house bunnies and protest the restaurants that have them on the menu- with a sign. "Bunny. It's whats for dinner" Anyone want to join me?

EBAA does demos and might be open to your suggestion.

There's also another group based in the East Bay, in Richmond, called the House Rabbit Society that might want to collaborate -- http://www.rabbit.org.

With EBAA exposing the cruelty and concerned citizens spreading the word, maybe rabbits can someday soon be guaranteed at least the minimal protections of the Animal Welfare Act.

If EBAA had bothered to do their research properly, they would be aware that their claims of cruelty are unfounded. "Shockingly like egglaying chickens" and "overcrowded in cages" my left foot!

The only time this would appear even slightly equivalent to the rabbit industry would be when visualized by an animal rights activists. Yes, they're kept in cages--this controls breeding and health, promotes cleanliness and prevents injury.

Rabbit housing is outlined in the Code of Federal Regulations, and in my experience the majority of rabbit raisers have setups which SURPASS this long-accepted and very reasonable standard. The attached photo is pretty typical of a caged rabbit kicking back, snuggled up against a neighbor behind her.

Rabbits are a wonderful, multipurpose animal, well suited for far more than just pets. Their meat is delicious, nutritious, and easy to raise on limited resources. Their use in laboratories does a phenomenal amount to forward human medicine; their fur is warm, useful, and used in more than just frivolous trims--it's used to produce felt for hats and other items, too. NOTHING of the meat rabbit goes to waste if it is at all possible. Even brains and blood are highly valued for use in medicine and testing.

Please don't buy into the ARA theme of 'it's a pet used for meat so it should be outlawed'. Remember that the ultimate goal of the Animal Rights movement is the ultimate elimination of human-animal interaction! Think HARD before you just jump on the 'anti-cruelty' bandwagon. Animal welfare is looked after just fine by responsible owners in the meat rabbit industry as well as in the rabbit pet arena. With so many facets of rabbit use, it's not easy to make sense of a facet with which you are unfamiliar, but please do try. Just because you wouldn't be able to bear it, doesn't make it bad.

Rabbits are the ultimate multipurpose animal, raised cleanly, in good conditions well suited to them, and free of hormones or chemicals used to promote the growth of other meat species. Care is always taken to ensure good health--without that, good production is impossible.

YES, they make awesome pets. But not every rabbit owner is responsible enough to be able to place even all the rabbits resulting from 'accidental' litters in good homes, and they quickly become routine habitues of area shelters in areas where many are kept for pets. Witness the rescuer in Reno, NV who wound up with well over a THOUSAND rabbits just by taking in the 'unwanted' ones and failing to spay or neuter, or even house them. She fed them, though, and let them have litter after litter after litter--and they died early, in large numbers, too. Wouldn't it have been more humane to slaughter these animals for a purpose, like feeding the homeless, rather than letting them breed themselves to death? Or even putting them in individual cages?

The responsible breeder takes the full responsibility for their animals and their offspring, making sure that they either go to good homes or are put to other uses as humanely as possible. Yes, many will die. That's the way of things with a food species. But they go for a REASON, they aren't just euthanised and wasted, as those in the shelters are.

Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

Recommended sites: http://www.arba.net http://www.prma.org http://www.showbunny.com

and rather quickly too

"caged rabbit kicking back, snuggled up against a neighbor behind her."

how charming

"Rabbits are a ... multipurpose animal"

great for experimenting on, too!

funny that EBAA DID do research and you can view their photos and video for yourselves, yet this industry wag digs at the AR movement rather than really refuting EBAA's undercover work. how in the hell do we know this spacious cage was not totally staged? we don't. seems pretty inefficient if you're out to make a buck from rabbits for food. I suppose putting a bean bag for the rabbit to "kick back" on probably would have been a bit too much in this and blown the supposed credibility of this rabbit profiteer.

"'it's a pet used for meat so it should be outlawed'"

that's what we call a straw man arguement. EBAA has said nothing of the kind, just that rabbits should not be packed into cages and classified as poulty to escape humane treatment regulations

"Care is always taken to ensure good health--without that, good production is impossible. "

the animal industry always uses the line, but it's simply not true. good production can be defined many ways, but it universally translates to "good profits" and there are many ways to profit from animal exploitation that have absolutely nothing to do with the health of the animals. I have seen a documentary by Compassion Over Killing that features a chicken producer saying the exact same thing, and even adding that no one can actually visit the facilities to see them for themselves because visiting would contaminate the chickens' health, and then COK went undercover into this company's chicken warehouses to find seriously decomposed birds in filthy cages with live birds in terrible health and covered with the feces of birds in cages above them. it's an old trick, this industry line, but it still works with those who know no better perhaps

and then the deflection about rabbit owners and breeders for pets. EBAA does not support breeding rabbits for pets, I am quite sure, so that's a total red herring and really, again, says nothing about the rabbits for food industry

attack the messenger rather than refute the message. how typical

"Animal welfare is looked after just fine"

yes, trust what this industry hack says and ignore what you see with your own eyes when you check out EBAA's documentation

Let us set the facts straight about the "investigation" done by the EBAA on Cloverdale Rabbit facilities. First, this was a criminal trespass that under federal law could bring a minumum of 2 years of prison and a $10,000 fine. Next, the USDA does not classify rabbits as poultry, they don't classify them at all. The state of California has lumped rabbits in with poultry to insure they fall under the California Humane Slaughter act (California is one of the only states to have such an act in place), so rabbits are processed under a humane slaughter act in CA. Next, if the rabbits were housed in a criminal way at Cloverdale, why was Clyde Marsh not arrested and his rabbits confiscated? The rabbits were being held overnight for processing the next day. The apparent overcrowding is not a typical condition that rabbits would be found in, it was a temorary housing of rabbits overnight before they were butchered.

It is easy to show a few pictures and tell a story that is horrifying, it takes work to find exactly what the facts are, looks like the EBAA did not do their homework.

EBAA came on site, did indeed find rabbits being neglected in squalor, but it doesn't matter because you were about to kill them anyway.

Did I miss anything?

Wow, can you imagine how well this would go over if we were talking about Dachau or Andersonville? "Well, we moved in and occupied the prison and let me tell you what we found there just made us want to churn those krauts/rebs up real good with machine guns on the spot, but then they said 'oh, but we were about to kill them anyway,' and so we said 'oh, hokay then, never mind,' and left. Oh, and then the Nazis/Confederates charged us with criminal trespass. Boy are we ashamed of ourselves!"

Mark is a criminal. It has nothing to do with laws. It means having a dead empty space where a soul should be

ROFL! Ok, I have to admit, this is funny. The poster 'critiquing' my previous comment obviously hasn't listened to themselves lately.

"how in the hell do we know this spacious cage was not totally staged? we don't. seems pretty inefficient if you're out to make a buck from rabbits for food. "

Well, how do we know that the photos of rabbits crammed into the cages shown on the EBAA's website aren't totally staged?? ROFL!! Listen to your own logic, here!

BTW, 'making' two rabbits kick back and cuddle isn't something you can force or contrive. Dumping extra rabbits in cages, or luring them all up front to make the situation appear worse than it is, is a very OLD trick.

That 'spacious cage'? Not at all inefficient, but necessary for the rabbits to enjoy good health, development, and bone strength. They can, and do, 'binkie', 'flop' and spread out to snore the day away, just like house rabbits--except caged pet rabbits generally have smaller enclosures.

Dirty cages can result in rabbits that can't be slaughtered for human consumption, and thus repeated occurrences of ill animals from a specific premises means that the processor will refuse to purchase them until health is regained. So health is paramount in that way, as well as the basic biology which enjoins the female to NOT produce if conditions are poor.

As the rabbits come in for slaughter, they must remain traceable back to their owners--it's simply a matter of reason. If there is a problem at slaughter, the processor needs to know where the animals came from, and the producer needs to know so they can fix the problem.

And can you imagine the disaster if these rabbits from different sources were all intermixed, say in a nice large exercise pen? Oh, heavens. There would be dying animals all over the place--they'd beat each other to a bloody pulp!

I see that EBAA also 'saved' five rabbits. 'Saved', or 'stole'? Or maybe they actually BOUGHT them to 'keep them from being abused'. Been known to happen, here and there.

And ah, the Holocaust comparison. What a sad thing, to compare truly horrendous human suffering with animal conditions, when the true horror in those terrible places was that HUMANS DID THIS TO HUMANS.

This little production of EBAA's is so conveniently timed, don't you think? Right before Easter, when people are inclined to donate to 'save those poor widdle fuzzy bunnies'? At a time when the nation has given, and given, and given for the worldwide disasters which have occurred in the last year, and people are about 'tapped out' on contributions?

Hmmm...

Respectfully,
Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

Recommended sites: http://www.arba.net http://www.prma.org http://www.showbunny.com

So forget "criminal trespass". Invite us to Colverdale. Standing invitaion. If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind if we...just drop by...do you?

I am a bunny hugger. Rabbits are not food, fur trim, or test subjects. If you want food, grow it. If you want fur, stop shaving your legs. If you are so concerned about research, volunteer to be a test subject.
These are God's creatures and we as the superior species are supposed to watch over them, not manufacture them to use as we please.

Yes, it is ok to do a criminal act when investigating something that is not a criminal act in this country? Did I miss something? What EBAA did was a criminal act and those involved should be behind bars and paying the fine. I saw no animals in distress in the video, however I do see a rabbit that is obviously sick in the shots leading to the Cloverdale video, there is a rabbit showing signs of wry-neck in one of the stills. How could anyone let a rabbit suffer with this condition that cars about rabbits. Also, comparing rabbits to humans as to the sactity of life is an atrocity to other humans and to God.

For Mark and Pamela:

"Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace"

Dr. Albert Schweitzer

I take offense at comparing animals raised for food to the victims at Dachau, you see, I lost grandparents to the German Death camps. How we can make this comparison is beyond me and those that do have no compassion for their fellow man and would by any stretch of the imagination be considered soul less.

I've been watching the animal rights industry for years. One thing I've realized is that animal activists will say and do anything to try and get people to do what they want and the truth and the facts only get in the way. Who exactly are these East Bay activists? How was this investigation conducted? And by who exactly-name names. I viewed the video, looks like it was done at night with the only external lighting coming from a camera or flashlight. So did these activsts trespass? If so how can we have any confidence in the results of their "investigation"? The video and photos poorly done as they are expose nothing. So I didn't think it could possibly show the whole picture or that one could make accurate conclusions from it. What are their views about raising animals for meat? Were the proper authorities contacted if there really was abuse, or was the only goal to get something that could be made to look bad to promote an agenda?

Look at the above picture, the way it's taken it minimizes the true size of the cage. It looks to me like the cage is much bigger the rabbits all happen to be together in the front by the food dish. A litter growing out for market perhaps? Was the picture taken that way to try and make it look like the animals were in a small cage? The video also showed rabbits in transport cages, that in itself is meaningless, doesn't prove they are mistreated. No indication either of how long they were there. People not involved with rabbits usually don't understand the concept of transport cages used to bring rabbits from point A to B and are built small to safely contain the rabbit for transport. Someone who raises rabbits could tell from the video that those cages are not where the rabbits live and were obviously showing rabbits being transported somewhere-probably to be processed.

I don't see any reason why a farmer would invite activist groups in to view conditions because activists opposed to meat consumption just spin everything. I don't raise rabbits for meat but I know a bit about the industry. I think this story is just a big set-up to try and make people think rabbit farmers mistreat their animals. Look at the reaction to Pam Alley's post, instead of trying to learn or understand a couple people have just tried to dismiss her as being part of the industry. Well, if you oppose meat consumption your arguments about a need for regulation can just as easily be dismissed since you are opposed to the concept of eating animals. And one farm from a poorly done and a questionably obtained video do not prove the whole industry is a mess.

I'm so sick of hearing comparisons between battery hen cages and caging rabbits. If rabbits are kept together unaltered they will fight or breed constantly so caging them is necessary. Hobby breeders cage their rabbits, as well as most pet owners, cages are not a big deal. I've heard from people looking to buy pets that "rescuers" giving free run of their homes to rabbits are a very unsanitary sight. Poop all over the house, urine, hay, etc. I also never raised chickens so perhaps there is a valid reason for battery hen cages.

There is much ado about rabbits not protected by humane slaughter laws, but that doesn't mean they aren't slaughtered humanely. I've read the US HSA, all it says is that animals are to be slaughtered in a humane way-it doesn't state what way that is. Adding rabbits isn't going to do anything, except I wonder if it wouldn't raise the cost of rabbit meat due to government regulation. If costs go up it hurts the farmer, which would be something someone opposed to meat would like. The humane methods to slaughter rabbits aren't even accepted by the activists so what do you hope to gain? And CA does cover rabbits in their humane slaughter laws so using a CA rabbit farm for propaganda purposes doesn't work.

This just looks like an attempt to demonize rabbit farmers by people who don't want rabbits used for food. I'm not buying the photos or video, if there is a legitimate problem then they should get the proper authorities involved. Otherwise all this is is unproven propaganda. The rabbit meat industry is small, it's actually exactly what activists say they want-the farmer doing the work to raise the animals instead of a setting like a factory farm. Or maybe the activists just say they want the "old ways" back in farming but really just want to eliminate all farming. Maybe they are caged but they have been domesticated for thousands of years to thrive in that type of environment. The commercial rabbit meat breeder is like the farmer of old, they don't have employees they do the work themselves and it's all done humanely.

Why do I know? Because although I have never raised rabbits for meat I was invited to assist a commercial breeding group with drafting humane standards for rabbit farming. I learned alot about the commercial rabbit meat industry doing that. I also learned that the rabbit farmer cares deeply about what they do and to provide proper care to their animals and to do it all humanely. I've read tons of information about humane farming, humane slaughter, etc I did not find any evidence that there is a problem in the rabbit meat industry with mistreating rabbits. What I have found over the years is that the animal activists have little understanding of proper animal husbandry or even an understanding about animals and their needs.

And the last book I'd trust with accurate information is one written by activists who have no involvement in raising rabbits for meat. It just seems that this "investigation" is just an attempt to get people stirred up about rabbit farming and has no basis in reality. I remember the push to ban gestation crates for pigs, then I read that they are used to protect the babies from mom as often piglets get squashed as mom moves around. People who don't farm, never participated in it, or even condone it are never a good source of information about farming practices.

Perhaps time would be better spent investigating the activist groups and the "rescues" and shelters to see what sorts of abuse and neglect go on there. The news has lots of stories about problems with the shelter industry but I suppose if you're part of the AR/shelter industry you wouldn't want that exposed. Just look at the NV case, one rescuer and a thousand neglected rabbits. Does anyone think their past treatment was humane? Are there any laws that regulate the shelter/rescue industry to prevent such well documented and publicized problems? Perhaps you need to start with promoting humane rescuing laws. Surely all of you attacking rabbit farming are also working on ensuring the shelter/rescue industry is adhereing to proper animal care and there are no hoarders, or neglect situations? Please let us know what your efforts are in that area.

it's time you sharpen your PR skills. we need some citations, not more of your generalizations

EBAA named specifically where their photos and video came from. "Dumping extra rabbits in cages" you suggest is an "OLD trick"? is it now? perhaps you can point us all to evidence that EBAA did this, or perhaps you can show evidence that it is indeed an old trick. surely there is an article somewhere you can point us to that discusses this "trick" having been used in the past

where did your picture come from? why was its color doctored?

can you tell us how bone strength is important for rabbit meat? it's not important in just about every other animal food industry -- the only thing important is that the animals survive until slaughter, not thrive but merely survive. perhaps you can point us to an industry white paper on bone strength.

"Dirty cages can result in rabbits that can't be slaughtered for human consumption"

again, please show a citation for this. it doesn't ring true considering the rest of the intensive animal food industry. animals living in filth is the norm and has zero effect on their slaughter-ability. so perhaps you can prove for us how the rabbits for food industry is the exception to the rule when compared to other caged animals grown in intensive conditions in warehouses.

"conveniently timed"

does timing matter how the rabbits are treated year round? you are questioning EBAA's motives here, which is a joke. EBAA is all volunteer as I understand it, so there are not likely to be giant amounts of donations pouring in over this, and while they certainly have operating costs and appreciate donations, they do not spend much time fundraising as they have no staff salaries to cover. you, on the other hand, appear to be making a living on the rabbit industry and your motives are therefore much more suspect. or do you just do PR for the industry out of the goodness of your heart?

"Been known to happen, here and there."

not sure even what you are suggesting here, but again, it's time you back it up. if it's "been known to happen," whatever you are suggesting, then surely someone has written about it. right? or is this just another unverifiable accusation of yours?

in short, your folksy and anecdotal responses aren't cutting it. if you are going to slap a title under your name to give your comments supposed heft, your comments themselves should be a bit more substantial. let's see your documentation. EBAA showed theirs

Pamela, that photo isn't of a meat rabbit and you know it.
Nor is it a picture of a typical meat rabbit cage. I'd say that's pretty
unfair tactics on your part.

As for your comment that animal rights activists want to get rid of all human-interactions: give me a break. The reasons
ARA's enjoy interacting with animals tremendously--it's the recognition that these are sentient creatures, capable of both joy and suffering,
that makes us cringe at the treatment they receive in many commercial settings.

I'll say one thing having raised many different breeds of rabbit in the Ruby Eyed white color, if those rabbits had lived in that crowded of a cage for more than a couple days they would NOT be that clean, those rabbits pictured are almost SPOTLESS. That does NOT happen in very crowded conditions.

The video clearly shows unsanitary conditions for the rabbits. Please note: Night videography can 'blow-out' detail of the footage.

I can't find a listing for East Bay Animal Advocates on Guidestar.org who is in this group? Where can people view their financial records?

I did find on a google search references to the group being pro-animal rights and ARs means opposed to the consumption of meat and use of animals including as pets references needed? Check out the quotes and published AR agenda which can be found at http://www.naiaonline.org

Can we trust the EBAA "investigation"? This article shines some light on the group and what they do-or don't do:

The East Bay Animal Advocates sneak onto farms and rescue animals in captivity. BY JUSTIN BERTON

Article published November 24, 2003
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2004-11-24/news/eastsidestory.html

In July, a group of East Bay "animal rescuers" snuck onto a Central Valley turkey farm and plucked her from the barn. She was one of seven turkeys smuggled off the land that night

"We don't like to give out the names of the people who take them in," said Christine Morrissey, a youthful paralegal by day and animal rescuer by night.

Morrissey is the spokeswoman for a semiclandestine group called East Bay Animal Advocates, whose primary mission is to liberate farm animals. The group has performed three rescues since last year, willfully trespassing for what it perceives as a higher moral calling -- to save animals from abuse and apply medical support to those in need. The group, which also is known as the Animal Advocates' Animal Bureau of Investigations Team

In most cases, Morrissey's group refrains from publishing the name of the farm it hits; rather than holding one farm to the fire, Morrissey said the broader message is to call attention to farm animal abuse. In the Freitas case, however, the group was particularly agitated by its findings. It faxed a letter to Merced County Animal Control citing animal cruelty laws and posted the farm's name on its Web site beneath photos of alleged abuse.

The heist stirred a commotion among the rural farmers. According to Kristi Garrett, an investigator with Merced County Animal Control, the theft was the first of its kind her office had heard about. After receiving the group's letter, Garrett said she followed up on the cruelty complaint and headed out to the farm. Despite the group's claims to the contrary, she found no smell of ammonia, and the birds' fecal matter was dropping onto a conveyor belt that moved it out of the barn.

A person who identified himself as a manager of the egg farm refused to give his name. "I'm of the opinion that ... anyone in the Bay Area will not understand what we're doing out here and how we're trying to make an honest living abiding by the rules," he said. "We're just trying to get along."

The man said his facility had been inspected for six hours by the USDA just the day before. His claim was later corroborated by Dr. Nancy Reimers, a vegetarian who inspects egg farms for United Egg Producers, a lobbying group that ultimately is overseen by the USDA.

"They were in compliance with the program," said Reimers, who declined to state when her last inspection occurred or how often she visits the egg farm.

The Freitas Farms manager said he sent evidence of the March trespass to the Merced County sheriff's office. According to investigator Garrett, the district attorney's office has received the complaint and is working on the case.

I can't put much stock in reports about a British AR group and what it did
10-14 years ago. EBAA is not that group and to associate the two is
just a lousy debating technique.

It's funny--I had been tempted to post photos of rabbit factory farms
in the UK (where, yes, the rabbits are crammed into small dirty cages),
just as a counter to Pamela's photo of the lovely rabbit in its lovely
metal cage. But I thought that would be unfair, given that it was in an
entirely different country. Clearly the breeders posting on this list
don't hesitate at such smear tactics, even as it accuses the ARs of
over-the-top "spin."

By the way, I don't think that metal cage set-up is so hot. The rabbits I've met seem
to enjoy romping on carpets, sleeping on beds, playing with toys, and
snuggling up, nose to nose, with other rabbits (not lying next to them, but
separated by cage bars). That rabbit may be "clean" as your jpg label
describes it, but I bet it's plenty bored.

Dear Ms. Alley,

East Bay Animal Advocates is a register non-profit organization in the State of California. If you would like to open a discussion regarding our work, please feel free to contact us directly at info [at] eastbayanimaladvocates.org or P.O. Box 1406, Martinez, CA 94553.

Sincerely,

Christine Morrissey
East Bay Animal Advocates

Not a meat rabbit? I beg to differ! That doe is a standard Rex, a breed highly valuable for not only its fur but its meat--making it one of the most utilizable types of rabbits for meat and fur production. (Her color is called Lynx--and the photo was shot during daylight using a digital camera with normal fill flash. It has not been edited in any way other than size.)

Not a typical meat rabbit cage? Why not? Where did you get your orientation on 'typical' meat rabbit housing?

Bones -- As anyone who has seen a commercial meat chick mature knows, it is possible to compromise health by overselection for other, more commercially valuable traits--something that the rabbit meat industry has so far avoided by its very nature. Good bones are vital to producing strong, well-muscled meat animals--and in the meat rabbit industry in the US, the breeding stock is generally chosen from the best offspring of current production stock. So bones are really important to ensure that any breeding animal is well-suited to do so over the long term, something that is selected for on a continuing basis.

As for poor conditions resulting in unusable meat animals, common sense should be sufficient. You don't sell meat from animals which have abscesses, for instance--nor do you sell livers from animals which have liver disease. Common sense!

There are accounts upon email lists (like on etherbun at yahoogroups) from folks who purchase rabbits from those who will sell them for meat or for feeders, to 'save' them from being used for those purposes. I've also met people who have done so face-to-face.

While the wire cage lacks appeal for those with spayed and neutered houserabbits, it has its reasons. Intact breeding animals should not be kept together in groups unless in a quite spacious colony situation, which isn't economic or sensible for commercial production. (Remember that rescuer in NV? That's one HUGE and apparently totally unmonitored colony, which is less than ideal to put it mildly.) Rabbits are highly territorial. They can and will do incredible damage to one another in seconds.

As for toys and environmental enrichment--these things are being used more often in the rabbit industry as a whole, from house pets to lab animals. Spayed and neutered houserabbits can indeed have a blast in the average house--they can also easily die from what they encounter there unless appropriate precautions are taken.

Another reason for all-wire cages (beyond cleanliness and separation) is the ability to closely monitor the health, behavior, and nutrition of every rabbit in the herd. In this way, problems can be caught and remedied earlier, or simply prevented.

While I must agree with Pat Lamar that there are always bad apples in any given barrel, I also must point out that the meat rabbit industry, thanks to research over many years, is always seeking to improve the conditions, and the production, of their herds.

Hope that helps....

Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

If rabbits are not classified in the same way that say pigs and cows are classified, that is under the domain of the Humane Slaughter Act, does that mean that they are not required to be unconscious at the time of death? It would seem that this is what EBAA is trying to say, but I haven't heard anyone refute this. Perhaps I missed it in all this back and forth, and I apologize, but could someone just answer that simple question one way or another. Thanks.

So you're saying that rabbits are put in
low cages to discourage mounting when they're
being transported? That's funny--I've never seen
a rabbit try to mount another rabbit while being
transported in a vehicle. They're too scared to move!

But then you put the rabbits in larger cages while
they wait to be slaughtered? Don't they mount and
fight then?

Your argument just doesn't make sense.

Also, yes, it looks like EBAA's footage shows rabbits
in transport cages. But why were they being kept
in transport cages so long EBAA had a chance to
videotape them...at NIGHT? Looks to me like they
were being kept in the transport cages a little too
long.

When slaughtered, rabbits are either struck on the head or their necks are broken to either stun *or* kill. With most rabbits, and in most cases, these techniques are sufficient to kill in and of themselves. Either way, the rabbit is unconscious or dead when it is suspended for decapitation and skinning.

They should not be conscious at any step beyond that of the initial stun/kill.

The very rare exceptions will result in the killing method being reapplied instantly, with death being as rapid as possible.

Hope that helps!

PA

Greetings:

Thank you for all your comments and concernings regarding our findings at Cloverdale Rabbit Company. Please visit http://www.rabbitproduction.com for the latest information about out investigation. In the upcoming days, you will have many of your questions answered via our website.

Have a wonderful day!
Christine
EBAA

The only thing these people understand are dollars and cents. Lets start targeting facilities that offer rabbit. We'll bring our bunnies (they can have a bunny play date), and we'll let people make eye contact with whats on the menu. It might work..... less people eating rabbit, less people selling rabbit, less rabbits being bred for meat....


"multi purpose animal- cuddly and delicious"- that's just sick......

"ah, the Holocaust comparison. What a sad thing, to compare truly horrendous human suffering with animal conditions, when the true horror in those terrible places was that HUMANS DID THIS TO HUMANS."

And monstrous treatment of ANIMALS by humans is morally insignificant next to this? Not everybody agrees with your assumptions there, hun'. Based on which species is capable of criminal malice and thus capable of deserving callous treatment, one could reasonably say abuse of animals is MORE evil

There is a mindset (possibly biblical in orgin), that the world and its creatures are ours to do with as we please, by nature of our "superior" intellect and our "superior" ability. But our responsibility is as caretakers- not as exploiters of these resources- and if we ignore that responsibility then it is clear that the notion of human supremacy is a fallacy.
We have no more right to exploit rabbits than we do the great whales.

One problem is that people are saying that the animals are being abused solely because they do not agree with the way they are being raised. To some, putting a rabbit in a cage is heinous. I think watching a wolf catch a rabbit and consume it while it is still alive is heinous, nothing even remotely similar to raising rabbits humanely for meat. But then, the wolf has to eat. Since the bunny huggers ruler is any rabbits raised for meat is cruel, there is no system of raising meat rabbits that will be acceptable, so there is little point other than to make sure they do not visit your rabbit farms.

Pamela,

If that is truly how rabbits are slaughtered why would you object to them being classified under the Humane Slaughter Act? Such an inclusion would make sure that rabbits were (at the very least) not cut or hung while conscious. They currently have no legal protection from people who would not follow your guidelines.

OK, I think I understand some of this debate. I think I understand that one group is trying to save rabbits from suffering, while another thinks nothing of subsidizing the abuse of animals. Like most issues in life, not everyone agrees. Got it. What I don’t understand is why there’s such a double standard in our culture. Why is it all right to eat a rabbit, pig, cow, chicken or other “farmed” animal, yet almost any meat-eater would agree that eating a dog or cat is wrong? Why the hypocrisy? All animals feel pain and fear, whether you call him “Rover” or “dinner.” That said, I’d like to address a few of the questions and issues this spirited debate has raised:

Rabbits for meat

No animal deserves to spend his or her life in a cage -- no matter how clean -- denied the ability to indulge their natural behaviors. How can anyone claim there is no cruelty in confining an animal and then slaughtering him? Is this kindness? There is simply no good reason to be eating the flesh of rabbits, or any other animal. Is it OK to cause the immeasurable suffering of another simply because we happen to enjoy they way they taste? I don’t believe it is.

Rabbits for fur

Whether rabbit fur "trims" a sweater or lines boots, hats, gloves, bags or anything else, its use has a high price: the lives of hundreds of millions of gentle rabbits each year. On fur farms worldwide, rabbits are confined year-round to crowded, filthy cages, often with little protection from the elements. Many exhibit symptoms of psychological distress, such as self-mutilation and pacing. There is no "humane" method of slaughter. To kill the rabbits, fur farmers break the animals necks or smash their skulls before stringing them up by their legs, skinning them -- often while they are still conscious -- and cutting off their heads.

The dreaded Holocaust analogy

Most of the people who find comparing the Holocaust to the practice of factory farming inappropriate are -- surprise -- meat-eaters and others who do not feel non-human animals should enjoy the same level of respect and dignity as other animals. As Karen Davis writes in her new book, “The Holocaust & The Henmaid’s Tale: A Case for Comparing Atrocities”: “To be ‘treated like animals’ is an insult because the experience of animals is assumed to be vastly inferior to that of any human being, most of all one’s particular group… Presuming an immeasurable gulf between humans and animals allows one to appropriate animal abuse as a metaphor for one’s own mistreatment while simultaneously dismissing the metaphor, and hence the ‘animals,’ as ‘just an expression.’” Comparing factory farming to Hitler’s Final Solution is not meant to demean humans or offend any group. Humans who value the sanctity of ALL life understand this.

The “open rescue” model employed by EBAA

This activism is based on the desire to provide aid, veterinary care and sanctuary to any neglected or abused animal in a confined condition. The ag industry calls it “stealing.” Yes, it is illegal; indeed, amid our nascent climate of intolerance toward any civil disobedience, nearly all protest activity is being labeled “terrorism.” Activists who remove animals from confinement see it as granting life to a being who would otherwise suffer a horrible, painful death.

The veracity of EBAA’s claims

What would EBAA possibly have to gain by misrepresenting any facts they present? I have been inside factory farms, and they are appalling -- worse than anything EBAA could describe. Sadly, EBAA is telling it like it is!

The HMSA

Congress approved the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act (HMSA) in 1958. While the meat industry voiced its objections, the public supported the reform, which requires that animals raised for food must be “rendered insensible to pain” before being killed. After all, supporters of the act reasoned, if animals are to be slaughtered, they should not be tormented during their final moments. But although the eight bills presented at the 1957 hearings before the House Agriculture Subcommittee on Livestock and Feed Grains included livestock and poultry, the meat industry managed to get poultry exempted from the HMSA, meaning there is no federal protection for the nine billion chickens and turkeys killed every year in the U.S. -- 95 percent of all animals killed for food in this country. Yes, the USDA now classifies rabbits as poultry (remember, this is the same agency that declared ketchup is a vegetable). Because they are unprotected by HMSA, rabbits can suffer horrendous cruelty, as long as it’s considered standard practice in the ag industry.

Perhaps this was “food for thought” for some people. Thank you.

P.S. I’m still wondering about that double standard.

I did a little tweaking on the photo above of the "crowded" rabbits that EBAA has posted. I just brightened the midrange so you can see more of the picture. Here is what I got. notice the tons of space the rabbits have and how they are indeed all crowded to the front. So much for ARs and their deception and lies. I hope it comes through.

Another thing about that picture that I notice, is there is no filth, no poop, no "squalor" that I can see. Can you?

Pearl, while you did a nice job on the picture EBAA provided, it really doesn't show any more than it did previously, that all the rabbits in the cage are crowded to the front. Not unusual when someone comes into a rabbit holding area with a funny light and a camera! :) Did bring up just how nice and clean and healthy those rabbits appear in that photo, though.

Anyway.

I've no objection to the Humane Slaughter Act covering rabbits--but it's largely unnecessary based on current practices as I understand them. I've yet to see any credible (or ANY) actual documentation of the claims made that rabbits are being inhumanely treated on a routine basis, skinned alive and screaming, or where this supposed activity occurs.

I want to speak directly with the people who have actually SEEN or HEARD this happen; I want details of who and when and where for verification. Only when someone with sincere interest in the industry can directly evaluate questioned practices and places can these alleged reports be verified or firmly discredited.

Either way, nothing constructive can be done until credible information is available. And frankly, information provided by ARA groups is inherently questionable given the aforementioned tactics of 'anything goes as long as animals are saved'.

Those who sincerely wish further information about rabbits and their care may contact

Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

Pity the bunny. Easter is the only time of the year when rabbits get any attention.
by chron (repost) Wednesday, Apr. 05, 2006 at 10:40 PM

A hare-raising tale
Rabbits can be great pets, but rescuers caution they take the same care and commitment as dogs or cats

Eileen Mitchell, Special to The Chronicle
Wednesday, April 5, 2006

Pity the bunny. Easter is the only time of year when these gentle creatures get any worthwhile attention and even then, it's not to their advantage. That's because the holiday drives well-meaning people to impulsively seek bunnies as pets. Often, without first doing critical homework.

And according to Marcy Schaaf, that sets the stage for failure. In 1999, Schaaf founded Marin's Save a Bunny, a licensed rescue group run through the House Rabbit Society, a publicly supported nonprofit organization based in Richmond.

"Rabbits are smart, funny and mischievous," Schaaf says with affection. "But people have misconceptions about them. They think rabbits are low-maintenance and that's simply not true."

Rabbits are also considered multi-use animals and classified as poultry, rather than livestock. This means they don't enjoy protection under the federal Humane Slaughter Act and may be fully conscious while being slaughtered, often skinned alive.

"If people really knew rabbits, they wouldn't want to eat them." Schaaf is referring to the popular Sonoma rabbit entree found on many Wine Country menus. "It's being touted as the 'new white meat' but really, Sonoma rabbit is just branding. This disconnects people from the reality of what they're eating. It's no different than kitten-kabobs or puppy pot pie."

A hard dish to swallow. Particularly since rabbits make wonderful companion animals, just like their feline and canine counterparts. They bond for life with their guardians, have distinct personalities, know their names, play with toys and can learn to use an indoor litter box. They are quiet, sweet, intelligent animals, which can make it easy to forget that a rabbit will act like a rabbit. It will run, dig, chew and must have proper outlets.

"They aren't a 'starter animal,' " Schaaf warns. "But for the right family, rabbits are wonderful. People just need to first be educated."

Starting with what to call them.

"We never use the expression 'pocket pet,' " she emphasizes. "This implies that a child can stick the rabbit in their pocket. Most rabbits don't like to be picked up and especially by their ears or scruff. They have a very fragile skeletal frame and can easily break a bone if held or squeezed the wrong way. We prefer the word 'companion' to make the rabbit an integral member of the family rather than a product."

Another misconception is that rabbits are outdoor pets. "Today, rabbits are where cats were 20 years ago," Schaaf says. "Back then, people thought cats were outdoor pets and now we realize that cats live longer and healthier lives when they're kept indoors. The same applies to rabbits. They need that human interaction and protection. Sticking them outside is like tying a puppy to a tree, then ignoring it."

While an indoor rabbit can live up to 10 years or more, the average outdoor rabbit will last just one to three years, often succumbing to heatstroke, disease or predators. And no hutch is safe. Schaaf has seen rabbit limbs yanked through chicken wire and chewed off by determined predators.

An outdoor rabbit will also be less clean than its indoor brethren, attracting flies and increasing its exposure to a condition called fly-strike. Flies lay eggs that hatch into maggots, which then eat away at the living flesh, sometimes down to the bone or into the abdomen. In warm weather, the entire process can take just a couple of hours, literally eating the rabbit alive.

These are a few reasons Save a Bunny's adoption contract specifies that adopted companions must be kept indoors. Schaaf recommends a solid-bottom dog cage that is at least six times the rabbit's size. She steers people away from rabbit cages sold in pet stores. "They're usually too small, overpriced and designed for human convenience and not rabbit safety or comfort."

Pet rabbits should be checked by a rabbit-savvy vet annually, have nails trimmed monthly, hair brushed weekly (long-haired rabbits, daily) and litter box changed daily. A healthy rabbit will also enjoy at least three to four hours of exercise each day, outside the cage, in a rabbit-proof room. This means removing poisonous plants and covering outlets and tasty electrical wires.

Interested guardians looking for some bunny to love should first check their local shelters. Schaaf strongly discourages pet store purchases, citing hard-to-resist babies that are often under-age and not always properly identified as male or female. They also aren't spayed or neutered.

"Babies are cute, but soon turn into a raging pile of hormones," Schaaf cautions. "At around 5 months, docile babies morph into squirming teenagers who don't want to be held or cuddled. They also become sexually mature and may start to spray urine to mark their territory. Rabbits that aren't spayed or neutered may hump anything from the family cat to a guest's leg, and can become aggressive about their cage and supplies."

Not surprisingly, this is when people will surrender their rabbits to shelters. "Most pet stores aren't well informed about the proper care of bunnies and won't take the animal back if there's a problem," she adds. "Frustrated guardians complain that their new rabbit is destroying their home. That's because no one told them how to prepare or what to expect. The best choice for most families is a spayed or neutered adult rabbit, at least 1 year old."

Funded entirely by donations, Save a Bunny has approximately 40 volunteers. They work directly with local animal shelters and rescue up to 300 surrendered rabbits each year. This leaves little room or resources for private rescues.

"San Francisco Animal Control is especially good about giving rabbits a chance to be adopted," Schaaf notes with admiration, then sighs. "Nobody wants to euthanize a healthy animal. But shelters and rescues simply don't have enough room."

Adoption fees at Save a Bunny range from $80 to $100, considerably less than pet store expenses, which can triple in costs after factoring in supplies and vet bills. Shelter rabbits are spayed or neutered, which helps eliminate musky odors and reduces the risk of cancer. They also come equipped with coupons for a free vet exam and discounts for supplies. Save a Bunny does not adopt bunnies as gifts, nor will they do same-day adoptions.

"People must first complete our online form and read about rabbit care and supplies," Schaaf advises. "They have to know what to expect and be willing to make a 10-year commitment to the proper care and love of the rabbit. Our staff knows each rabbit's personality and will assist in matching the right person to the right rabbit."
Resources

A Bunny Basics class will be taught at Marin Humane Society from 10 a.m.-noon Saturday. (415) 388-2790.

Save a Bunny will be at the San Francisco SPCA April 15. Adoption outposts are also held several times a month at the PetSmart in Dublin and PetFood Express in Novato. (415) 506-6288.

Learn More: Visit Save a Bunny at http://www.saveabunny.com or the House Rabbit Society at http://www.rabbit.org.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/04/05/HOGHBI28H61.DTL&type=...

I could see the back of the cage in the original and I did not "notice the tons of space the rabbits have". I count about 8 rabbits in that cage and if they all spread out, they would maybe have room to hop once to one side and that would be it. certainly not "tons" of space by any reasonable standard. perhaps Pearl rabbits bumping into eachother for hours or days on end is an ideal situation

as for ms. rabbit industry, funny that now she is calling for further documentation when she first threw all sorts of claims and charges out there and never followed up with any substantiation of any of them (well, she did mention bone strength is a character rabbits are bred for but failed to tie it to supposedly spacious cages or any sort of documentation). somehow her charge that activists threw a bunch of rabbits into one cage as a "trick" has disappeared. so too has her charge that activists have a financial motive here, gone with the wind when she was asked if she was a volunteer PR rep for the industry. neither did she ever explain where her photo came from. so we have lies and evasion from the rabbit industry

if anyone has a credibility issue, it is this supposed rep of the industry. she has yet to provide any documentation for a single thing she has said. again, EBAA showed they documentaion beyond their own words, put them out there on the internet for anyone to examine. time for ms. rabbit moneymaker to put up as well. lets see some industry white papers on rabbits grown in warehouses or some photos of all of the stages of rabbit production perhaps.

Hm. I see I'm still one of the few who is actually willing to sign their posts. Puts a big dent in the credibility of a lot of the assault-type posts, now doesn't it? Sure should... ;)

Apparently, this latest poster hasn't read my previous posts very thoroughly. Nor done any additional homework on the Internet, where there is plenty of documentation on about anything you can imagine.

(May I suggest you check out the World Rabbit Science Association? They have been doing intensive research to improve rabbits for food, fur, and fiber for decades. The book Rabbit Production can tell you the basics as well, and gosh, the American Rabbit Breeders Association even has a handbook.)

I said that putting excess rabbits into a cage for photo purposes is an OLD trick. And it is. I can show you photos of one rabbit, two rabbits, or forty rabbits in a cage, and there is absolutely no proof beyond the photographer's honesty that says it is anything but what it seems. Seven more rabbits could be crammed in with that lovely Rex doe, a picture taken after they beat the heck out of each other, and make you much happier about the so-called 'true' conditions in that situation, BUT...as I am a responsible rabbit owner and ethical photographer, I won't.

Animal rights activists who feel that anything is justifiable to turn folks against a legitimate enterprise...well, I can't speak as to their morals or ethics.

Bone strength (to paraphrase myself) is essential to rabbit health and welfare in reproduction and production. Without suitable cage size (at least, according to animal activist claims with data apparently originating in Britain), bones are weakened and the rabbits may suffer severe injury. Thus, logic tells us that if we have healthy, sturdy, well-muscled animals of good bone structure in these cages, the cage size is likely sufficient, yes?

The photos of the Rex doe come from a meat-producing herd which has fur as a byproduct, and that's all you need to know. The claim of color alteration is unfounded--the two posted photos are unchanged except for size and resolution. What you see is what I shot.

Pretty typical, all in all, except for the breed. (New Zealands, Satins, and Californians are more commonly used than Rex. All three breeds are visible in the EBAA photographs.)

Calling me names isn't going to mask the simple fact that this whole shebang began over conditions at a single slaughter facility, where video was supposedly shot under unknown circumstances, of very clean, healthy-appearing rabbits which were destined to be slaughtered for food use. True, the cages have rust on them, and a little fur. But they're clean of manure or filth of any kind.

If you want to push for rabbits to be covered under USDA's Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, great. It's needless, to the best of my knowledge, but hey--we all want the animals stunned or dead before decapitation or skinning begins, right?

As for making money with rabbits? Oh, please. The meat rabbit industry runs on a very narrow margin, since rabbits are highly labor-intensive; far more people lose their shirts than stay in the business for the long haul. There are others, like Pat Lamar, who can speak to this.

Have you checked out her website, too? I highly recommend it. Good overview of the rabbit industry as a whole.

PR rep? No, just an honest and forthright believer in the legitimacy of ALL the aspects of rabbit ownership and breeding.

Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

I keep hearing the "responsible" meat rabbit line and then some comments about large commercial operations

is it a matter of scale? or does that not matter to you?

how many rabbits do you regularly keep as you cycle through them? would yours be considered a small, medium, or large-scale meat rabbit operation? how about Cloverdale Rabbit Company? are they small, large, or somewhere in between?

because you do it on one scale, does that mean you support it at any level of intensity? is your defensiveness a matter of "attack one, then you've attack all meat rabbit people?"

Any scale of rabbit production *can* be done responsibly, with care and attention to the condition, health, nutrition, and sustainability of production of the rabbits involved.

The Rabbit Industry Council works with other industry groups and entities to help educate the rabbit owner or producer as to key aspects of responsible ownership and production.

Our interest in obtaining proof and direct testimony as to the alleged cruelty in the meat rabbit industry stems from a desire to make sure that, *if* these allegations are true, efforts can be made to avoid any recurrence through education and positive change.

The only major differences between the small and the large meat rabbit producer are numbers and intent.

The small producer may do so as a way of removing non-productive or undesireable members of their herd, as well as generating some portion of the feed bill. The large commercial herd is dedicated to the greatest production of the highest-quality, fastest-growing fryer rabbits for meat use, the development and enhancement of a production bloodline, and expects to make some small profit in that way.

Because future breeding stock is selected from the animals produced on the commerical farm, the intensive selection of economically-valuable traits is moderated by the requirement of having sound breeding stock through their adult lives.

When added to the abstinence from antibiotic and hormone use as growth promoters, this means that the meat rabbit is one of the healthiest, cleanest meat animals around. Because most herds are 'closed' for biosecurity reasons, disease transmission into the herd is minimal, and drug use kept to the absolute lowest possible level through culling.

Hope that helps answer your questions...

Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

I'm glad that Pamela Alley believes that cervical dislocation and hitting
rabbits over the head is humane, and that rabbits are automatically either stunned or killed
when this is done to them. That's probably comforting! But there is at least some evidence that the rabbits
aren't always stunned or killed. The American Veterinary Medical Association
(which is affiliated neither with animal rights nor animal industries) does
NOT recommend cervical dislocation for rabbits over 2.2 pounds, because
they believe there's a strong chance that a larger rabbit (like those of meat
rabbit size) will not be rendered totally unconscious. (From what I've read
on industry websites, fryers are 4-5 pounds; stewers are 6 pounds; and
roasters are 8 pounds.)

I can't speak to the hitting-over-the-head technique,
but I was under the impression that cervical dislocation was the dominant
method, because there is a risk of bruising the meat if you hit a rabbit, which
would make it less marketable.

Also, I suspect Pamela is pretty well aware that while she may be an
efficient slaughterer (that is, she can twist their necks or bop their heads hard
enough to knock them out), lots of backyard slaughterers make mistakes. An inefficient twist or
an ineffective bop? Sounds pretty painful to me. Besides, we all know
that plenty of processors have also tried methods that aren't humane. I mean,
can anyone from the rabbit meat industry admit even that much??

And one more point: not all of the critics of the rabbit meat industry are vegetarian ARAs striving to
ban all interactions between humans and animals! (I just can't let that
comment of Pam's go--it's too, too funny!) Some critics of the rabbit
meat industry would just like to see rabbits treated more humanely in the
course of being raised, transported, and slaughtered. This is called a
concern with "welfare" and it is legitimate. It's
a shame that the primary defense of the rabbit meat breeders (in this
forum) is to accuse EBAA of staging its video. Please!! Do you honestly
think that no rabbits suffer in your industry? Even places like McDonald's
have acknowledged the error of their suppliers' ways! Yet the rabbit industry
seems to think it's above any reproach whatsoever. All I can say to that
is, "Wow!"

Does anyone care what a "Rabbit Industry" spokesperson thinks about any of this?

Greetings:

EBAA is not the webmaster on IndyBay.org. Thus, EBAA is not censoring your comments. Merely, we are reporting news of our group work. As stated before, rabbitproduction.com will be updated shortly, which will provide insight to the discussion via IndyBay.org.

Thank you.

Christine

---------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE THE FOLLOWING ONLINE CHAT TODAY:

Chat topic for Thursday, 4/6/06:

"Animal Rights and the Meat Rabbit Industry"

Is it time for the rabbit industry to become proactive? How
should the AR threat be handled? Please join us for a discussion.

Please review the following. Comments are welcomed at
the last link.

http://www.rabbitproduction.com/

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gcx2V-2nvTs

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1813113.php


---------------------------------------------------------------------

First and Third Thursdays

Time: 8:00PM - 10:00PM Central

(Moderators: Pat Lamar, Mark Grobner & Linda Welch, et al)
======================================
This weekly Chat may be accessed by going to:

http://www.chatcircuit.com

The room name is: #RabbitProduction (please
note... NO SPACES). This is not a "registered" chat and will not
be listed... you *must* type it in!

ChatCircuit does not require any additional programs for
accessing the chat rooms. We do suggest, however, that you
first click on "Chat Applet" on the main page, then "Chat Now"
on the menu on the right.

A window will pop up which asks the following:

Nickname (whatever name you wish to use)
Channel (type in: #RabbitProduction)
ChatCircuit (be sure it's on Chatcircuit or use the pull-down
menu)
Real Name (YOUR real name)
Server: (save it as is)
Port (leave it as is)

Click on "Connect Now!"

Formal protocol will be used when guest speakers are present.

The speaker will begin with an opening statement and will call
for questions when ready. For a question, please type ? and wait
to be acknowledged. For a comment, type ! and wait to be
acknowledged.

when they kick off the oh-my-gawd-some-people-think-what-we-profit-from-is-despicable- and-we'd-better-stick-up-for-the-giant-industrial-operations- like-the-one-featured-here-in-this-expose- or-they'll-be-coming-for-our-meat-rabbits-next the sky is falling chat time

and where was the link to this page, I wonder

Yes, the weekly "Rabbit Production" chats are intended for those who are interested in the production of rabbits, and in particular, the meat rabbit industry. However... they ARE "public" chats, meaning "open to the public" so that anyone can attend. It would only be natural, under the circumstances, for the majority to be pro-rabbit meat people. Afterall, this chat has been in existance for over 7 years, now!

A very special "thank you" to Christine for showing up at this chat, even though we had not specifically invited you, but you were welcomed. I did try to keep the proceedings civil for your sake. Just as the Animal Rights people have very strong feelings about us pro-meat people, likewise, many of our people have very strong feelings about Animal Rights Activists.

Those wishing to view the chat proceedings may find them for public viewing at these two web sites:

http://www.texasrabbitconnection.com (in the forum)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProfRabbitMeatOrg/

Please note that copying rights will NOT be granted!

Pat Lamar
President
Professional Rabbit Meat Association
http://www.prma.org/
Chairperson, ARBA Commercial Department Committee

I fully agree, as does anyone performing slaughter techniques--training and proper education of those who must euthanize for slaughter is imperative!

In the book "Stories Rabbits Tell", a quote from a meat rabbit producer and processor describes a classic incident of what can happen if cervical dislocation is poorly performed. This person subsequently found a method better suited to their abilities and preferences (blow to the head method), and from that point on, their slaughter activities have been much improved from a welfare standpoint.

I am often asked which methods are humane and which are not. At that point, I tend to refer people to the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia (AVMA Report), which addresses many possible methods, as well as criteria for evaluating other potential methods in the future.

While the report does state that the administration of euthanasia should not DEPEND upon 'conditional' or 'unacceptable' methods, it should be noted that in rabbit slaughter (for fur or meat), decapitation is immediately performed--often in only a few seconds--which produces an acceptable euthanasia via exsanguination after stunning.

"Stunning may render an animal unconscious, but it is not a method of euthanasia (except for neonatal animals with thin craniums). If used, it must be immediately followed by a method that ensures death."--Appendix 4 of the AVMA report

There is also considerable emphasis placed on technical competency in rabbit slaughter, and there should be. This is one of the most final acts anyone can perform, and it should be done with appropriate care and efficiency to minimize suffering or stress.

"Animals intended for food should be slaughtered humanely, taking
into account any special requirements of the US Department of Agriculture.22 Painless death can be achieved by properly stunning the animal, followed immediately by exsanguination." AVMA Report

"The need for technical competency is greater in heavy rats and rabbits, in which the large muscle mass in the cervical region makes manual cervical dislocation physically more difficult." AVMA Report

"Personnel performing euthanasia by use of a blow to the head must be properly trained and monitored for proficiency with this method of euthanasia, and they must be aware of its aesthetic implications." AVMA Report

"Cervical dislocation requires mastering technical skills to ensure loss of consciousness is rapidly induced." AVMA Report

(I point out here once again--in rabbit slaughter, these are primarily stunning techniques, not killing ones, although death may, and often does, result with great rapidity.)

The Rabbit Industry Council highly recommends hands-on instruction in any euthanasia or stunning method, and that a secondary and also highly effective means of rendering the animal stunned or dead be at hand at all times.

And finally, from the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, "Failure to list or recommend a means of euthanasia in this report does not categorically condemn its use."

The chat last night was very interesting, and I'm glad Christine showed up, as well.

Pamela Alley
Director, Rabbit Industry Council
RIC [at] cncnet.com

I have been trying to email Christine at her email and the info email addy, with a question and my emails are returned and a message stating The user does not accept email in non-Western (non-Latin) character sets.

What do I need to do to send an email?

Kimberlee

Hi All,

We are having technical errors when updated the website, which should be worked out by Monday or Tuesday :)

Kimberlee - I'm not sure why your emails are not going through. Perhaps, it is an ISP problem. Feel free to reach me by these non-email methods below.

Thank you.

Christine Morrissey
East Bay Animal Advocates
P.O. Box 1406
Martinez, CA 94553
(925) 487-4419
christine [at] eastbayanimaladvocates.org

Hi Christine,

Sorry to post this here and not email, but I cannot sent an email to any of the EBAA addys.

I wanted to thank you for attending the chat last night. It must be hard to enter a chat and potentially a room full of hungry wolves.

However, I am truly trying to understand this situation from both view points and I feel there were some key questions that did not get answered in last nights chat. Perhaps you could answer the following questions I have.

1. You had mentioned that legislative improvements for humans & animals is EBAA's goal, as is a Commonground. Could you clarify this, what kind of legislative improvements is EBAA hoping to achieve? Is it for better and more clearly defined regulations regarding potential overstocking, unsanitary conditions and sick animals or to abolish any and all meat processors and farms? What commonground are you hoping to achieve?

2. You had also mention the rabbits obtained from Cloverdale were ill with respitory infections, skin infections and diarrhea, is there a vet report verifying this diagnosis and if so could I obtain a copy?

3. You could not state how long the animals had been sick or if they just started exhibiting signs of illness as a result of transport. Nor could you confirm if the animals got sick on the premises or were delivered in that condition. Therefore depending on the delivery time and date of the rabbits in question the owner of Cloverdale may not have had sufficient time to evaluate all incoming rabbits prior to your arrival on site. In addition some illnesses take a day or two to show positive signs of being present and could be missed during an initial inspection.

Therefore, is there any evidence that Cloverdale knew the animals were definitely sick and not just stressed from travel and still did nothing?

4. Were the sick animals intermixed with supposedly non-sick animals? If so, this would lead one to believe the owner of Cloverdale may not have completed a full inspection of all rabbits. If they were isolated, than perhaps Cloverdale suspected they were ill and was self monitoring them.

5. You also indicated that the presence of ill animals was a violation of the CA penal code. However, is euthanasia not a viable option and thus negate any code violations on ill animals?

6. You mentioned overstocking of animals in cages. Were the majority of the rabbit cages overstocked? Or were they the exception? As mentioned it is not uncommon or unheard of for littermates to stay in the same cage while they grow to maturity or in this case wait to be slaughtered. The film did not show how big the enclosures were, do you have measurements and how old were the rabbits in the supposedly overstocked cages?

7. Your concern was also over rusty cages, cobwebs and faecal matter. What stage was the rust? How many cobwebs? (I think I have one or more cobwebs in my home) and how deep was the faecal pile? Was it under the rabbit enclosures or off to the side? Rabbits poop a lot and big rabbits produce bigger piles. Is there some legislation that says all rabbit droppings must be cleared away immediately or in a certain amount of time? If not am I guilty for changing the litterbox once a week? I would presume that the faecal matter would be cleared away and cages cleansed with new rabbit rotations. Is there any evidence to support or negate this?

8. You stated for some of the answers to questions similar to the above that I should ask Clyde, the owner of Cloverdale. If your organization is brandishing his name and meat plant through the dirt and insisting he is in violation of various laws and regulations, should you not have all the facts before hand?

I look forward to you reply.

For your information, I have been involved with rabbits and rabbit rescue for over 15 years.



Kimberlee

You can make any disclaimers you'd like, but regardless of their cage size or the condition of their coats or the way you so delicately bash them on the head, killing rabbits for meat or fur or experiments can never be "humane" because.... surprise!... it's KILLING.

Those of us who care about animals aren't fooled by the "Happy Cows" argument; i.e. that if the meat/cheese/eggs taste good, it *proves* that the animals must have been kept happy and healthy. Ha. What if I were suffering from, say, extreme depression or even a physical condition like pneumonia-- you could cut off my leg and it'd still taste ok, right?;)

People are so eager to give animal rights activists a bad rap. "I think PETA are kooks, so the House Rabbit Society must be kooks" or "EBAA did something illegal when they liberated those rabbits, so that means they must not do any good work, ever!" Stereotypes make things so convenient.

By the way, those photos show rabbits on wire floors, which is not proper housing. Perhaps they look so clean because their waste is falling through the wires. (Convenient for rabbit "producers," not the best for the bunnies.) Rabbits need toys; exercise time; running space; 24-hour access to fresh hay; 24-hour access to clean water; and room to stretch and jump and dance. I don't see that in any of the photos posted by the rabbit "producers."

I'm not sticking up for rabbits just because they're cute. I would feel the same way about any animal. But the glaring double standard is so hypocritical. Rabbits happen to be domestic animals that have a lot in common with cats and dogs, so the analogy is apt. (Substitute the word "puppy" for "rabbit" in Ms Alley's posts.) Maybe seeing rabbits as we see cats and dogs is one step towards seeing all animals (not just the cute, cuddly ones) as worthy of respect.

Hey ya'll. Interesting discussion, just wanted to add a few ideas. There was a time when all my relatives were able to run quickly to avoid those hungry jaws of coyotes, wolves, bears, hawks, and indigenous human hunters arrows. Those days are long gone, now only a few of us jackrabbits are able to survive speeding trucks on freeways and coyotes. Thw noble wolves were killed off by recent human immigrants called ranchers. More of us jackrabbits are eaten now by vultures by the roadside than hawks or eagles. Human hunters now use speeding lead laced bullets to kill us, the humans who hunted us throughout Turtle Island (north america) for thousands of years with bows and arrows aren't really around much anymore. These humans treated us with respect, and we lived free and wild until the day we were taken by them for food and clothing. We never were confined to crowded cages, as this would have made our flesh weak and flabby. Indigenous hunters knew of this and therefore did not attempt to revoke our freedom to life on the run..

We feel empathy for our domesticated relatives ya'll call "bunnies" and keep locked up in cages for their natural lives. I've gotten close enough to these cages on occasion to witness when bunnies are given a few moments to roam, these caged bunnies only hop around listlessly and then are herded back into their cages. Only a desperate coyote would be cowardly enough to eat one of these tired bunnies..

The comments above that rationalize caged rabbits for economic profit are missing the point. We have evolved by nature to run for most of our lives and this influences the strength of our muscle tone upon capture for food. We have nothing against the running wolves, at least they gave us a fighting chance. Ya'll humans assume that by sitting on your ass ya'll can get the same quality of meat without putting forth the effort of running, tracking, etc.. and allowing rabbits to run wild until death..

Have also counseled with the wild birds (pheasants, sage grouse, wild turkeys) of Isla Tortuga and they all pretty much agree that their cousins the chickens are suffering in their cages also..

"How can these newcomer humans believe that eating a genetically identical bird that spent it's entire life in a cage being shitted on by the chicken the next teir up is good for them? Then they get upset when we get through their fences and eat the natural seeds of plants? We also remember hearing of a time when humans weren't like this, they hunted us but left us roaming wild until out last day. Skill, knowledge and respect for nature were needed requirements of these humans to catch and kill us, the newer humans only seem to care about this dead paper money and little else. Definitely no respect. We understand these newcomer humans are from a place called "Europe" and they lost their indigenous culture thousands of years ago during the "Burning Times", so they themselves are domesticated. Anytime one of them attempts to remember and revive their indigenous past, they are ostracized, imprisoned or worse. That is what is happening to the eco-activists who try to help our caged cousins. These newcomers from Europe then force their domestication on everyone and everything else, from plants to animals to minerals. Then they wonder why there's a new avian flu virus, after all the antiviral drugs they pump into these crowded chickens? Don't they know that viruses can alter their DNA and become resistant to pharmaceuticals products? Guess not. We really miss they indigenous humans of Turtle Island that hunted us with bows and arrows, prayed to our spirits and danced around fires. They were much more fun."

The advocates and consumers of factory farming (rabbits, poultry, pork, etc..) will argue their rationalizations until their hardened arteries prevent enough oxygen from reaching their brain that they appear the same complexion as the sky on a sunny, cloudless day. Sad for them, but Madre Tierra will keep rolling on around Padre Sol with la luna in tow. Ya'll animal rights eco-activists keep on following the songs of your heart, freedom is just around the corner. Here's to living a life on the run..


Get to know me better @;

"Jackrabbits aren't picky eaters and can eat tough grasses, leaves, and twigs. They will also eat sagebrush and cacti. They only come out at night to feed. They conserve water by eating their food twice. This is kind of gross, but when they poop out their food the first time, they will eat the poop and digest it again, getting even more of the moisture out. Jackrabbits rarely have to drink and get most of their water from the plants they eat. Fifteen jackrabbits can eat as much as one full-grown cow in one day.

The jackrabbit is common in the western United States and northern Mexico, and in many places is considered a pest. People put up fences and poison to try to control them."

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/jackrabbit.htm

catch us if u can!!

We also find an account of a butcher who lived in Lhasa, capital of Tibet. The butcher used to kill so many cows and sheep all day in his house. He killed them one by one. Once, he took a short break and went out to refresh himself. When he returned, he saw that his cleaver, used for killing the animals, was not to be found anywhere.

When he looked around, he found out that it was hidden under the earth, dug and buried there by the animals themselves. He looked at the animals. Tears were dripping from the animals' eyes and their bodies were shivering with fear.

He realized how much suffering he had been bringing to the animals, even before they were subjected to the excruciating pain of getting hacked to death. The butcher developed a strong sense of compassion towards the animals and a strong sense of aversion towards his own deeds. He was so moved with compassion that he felt he would rather end his own life than to continue with what he was doing.

The butcher went up a hill and sought to kill himself. But since that was born out of a strong sense of compassion towards sentient beings, instead of falling down and crashing to death, he actually flew to the other side of the hill.

At that time, there happened to be a meditator in the same area. The meditator happened to know the butcher person by his profession. When the meditator saw the butcher capable of flying over from one part of the hill to the other side, he thought that if even such a sinful person can do so, then he (who has spent so many years in meditation) can definitely do likewise.

So the meditator, who did not practice compassion, went up the same hill and threw himself down . Unlike the repentant butcher, he fell and died instantly !

Hi Kimberlee,

1. A. Protection of rabbits under the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act; B. Augmented veterinary oversight of rabbit meat operations; C. Increased public visibility of rabbit meat production in the US
2. Yes. The vet records are not public record.
3. The stressful nature of live-haul rabbit transport weakens the immune system of animals, studies indicate. As well, the nature of the sicknesses and injuries at Cloverdale clearly shows that the growers and processors ignored the existing problems.
4. Yes.
5. Depending on the nature of the sickness or injury, euthanasia can be an option (administered by a vet or trained humane officer.) Cruelty violations are relevant whether a sick/injured animal is alive or dead.
6. Yes. The cages were less than approx. 1.5 feet wide X 1.5 feet high with stocking densities of 8 - 11 rabbits. Note: Cloverdale is not a grower, just a processor. Rabbits were under six months of age.
7. See Section 597.1.(a) of the CA State Penal Code.
8. We are not brandishing Cloverdale or Clyde Marsh. We are highlighting the poor conditions at this particular facility and calling for further action.

You may consider reviewing the California State Penal Code at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov for more information about state regulations. Feel free to add http://www.rabbitproduction.com to your web link list.

Thank you.

Christine Morrissey
East Bay Animal Advocates

An ACO from San Benito County visited Cloverdale Meat Company today at the request of Christine and EBAA. While Clyde Marsh was under no obligation to let the ACO on the property, being that he has nothing to hide, he let her inspect. Other than the need to remove manure from under the cages (apparently there is a county ordinance on the accumulation of animal waste, not an animal welfare issue) he received a clean bill of health. No animal cruelty was discovered at Cloverdale.

Per a phone conversation on April 27, 2006, the officer investigating Cloverdale Rabbit Company has not made a final determination regarding this cruelty complaint. Visit http://www.rabbitproduction.com for more information about EBAA's investigation of Cloverdale.

Well, it has been some time since the ACO visited Cloverdale and still no word on formal charges being brought against the owner/operator. What gives? Is this another case of pointing the finger at someone because you just don't agree with the fact they butcher rabbits? Where are the animal abuse charges?

This Pam person is a sicko! First off, I am a proud animal rights activist. I do alot of anti-fur outreach and demonstrations. Unlike you and your lies, I expose the public to the horrors of the fur industry. You say rabbit fur is warm.. Would you wear your own dog's fur or cat? You hypocrite! You obviously don't know what the animal rights movement goal is either. We encourage animal human interaction. That way, people can see that they are unique and feeling creatures, not unlike us! Our goal is to eliminate animal suffering and abuse. I don't know how heartless people like you sleep at night.

Oh Pammy, some of us already know you from other forums. You're a rabbit meat producer so of course you wouldn't believe information about cruelty if it was in front of your face! Come to think of it, it would be in front of your face!! You think rabbits are there for your own personal fun & games so leave the animal activists to work on the compassionate side of things, rescuing animals in line to die for your own dinner and in the not so distant future, they'll definitely be knocking on your door.

As I stumbled onto this I can't help but reply..... I'm a consumer, non-vegetarian like most americans, all I see from animal activists is extremist far out behavior and I suspect most of you come from rather urban progressive backgrounds. I've known people who are farmers that raise livestock and their farmers because they wan't to be, trust me if profit was their main motive in life they'd chose a career in human resources, accounting, nursing, corporate management etc etc etc......if they didn't raise their animals with respect and compassion they'd be out of business real fast. Chances are they raise these animals because they enjoy working with them...if they didn't why would they be raising them in the first place??? especially in the case of rabbits which is probably a rather small niche marketing industry...probably most are hobbiests. think of it.....it someone attempts to raise animals in gross inhumane conditions, disease and poor reproductive preformance would catch up to them real fast and they'd be out of business in a hurry. And I'm sorry but I honestly don't believe that the animals I've eaten will be "knocking at my door" when I die, if your goal is to try and scare me you'll have to try harder than that. The same goes for animals used in research....and I'm sorry if many of your here see that as cruel....But if 10,000+ rats, mice, dogs, cows, pigs, rabbits, cats etc were used in research to save or help my life or a relative then I'm all for it. And I honestly believe if any one of you were struck with a disease whether it be heart disease, cancer, MS etc etc etc.....and the doctor came to you and said we have a treatment that could either help prolong your life or treat you but this drug or procedure was tested and perfected using animals in research I believe 99% of you would say yes go for it! And yes maybe it could be tested on people....however I highly dought they'll be using people in studies no matter how bad of crimes they've committed.

My advice: (if you wan't it or not) Sure you can be a vegan or a vegetarian and I'm fine with that...I won't lose any sleep over it.....Thats the great thing about America isn't it? Freedom to make your own choices.....But don't forget my freedom to eat whatever I wan't to eat and point your finger at me claiming I'm some uneducated hick for choosing to eat meat or dairy products in my daily life and making some outlandish claim to get me to stop. Perhaps I would like to stop eating apples or peaches becuase of the huge amounts of harmful pesticides used in growing them...thats my freedom to not buy those products, but I'm not going to point my finger at you and scream and yell and make a fool of myself because you like or choose to buy/comsume those products..... Trust me the only thing that comes to my mind is that your time could be much better spent finding a much more positive hobby or interest in your life instead of stressing over something like this.....You could volunteer for habitat for humanity, be a mentor or big brother for an underprivelged child, go hiking, canoeing, model railroad, disc golf etc etc etc....instead of trying to place a burden which you created in your own mind or brainwashed by someone on your shoulders.

And no I'm not a farmer, animal research scientist (or what you seem to call vivosectionist) meat plant supervisor, etc etc.....Just an average American living paycheck to paycheck.

Just my two cents.... :)

how can you class a rabbit as a bird?

Pamela Alley Your argument is invalid. What animal rights activists are trying to do is prevent cruelty to animals. Poor little rabbits should not be confined in cages, they should be in the wild or someone's pet. If they did medical research on rabbits, it should only be for curing animals at the vet hospital. there are alternitaves for medical research that should be used instead. Animals should be the LAST choice for medical research for humans.

That horrible! Why should all those animals have to suffer just for a few people!? Id die to save millions of suffering animals any day! It doesn't matter if they have cancer, they need to just use the alternatives! Don't be saying that animal testing helped developed vaccines and pain killers because we don't need the animals to suffer in research labs anymore because we have the alternatives! Thank God for alternatives!!!